Return-Path: Delivered-To: leibbran@mailhub3.vianetworks.nl Received: from bs2-06.fas.harvard.edu (bs2-06.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.34.186]) by mailhub3.vianetworks.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3999EAA49 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:37:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from voyager (dialup-206.15.0.92.Dial1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net [206.15.0.92]) by bs2-06.fas.harvard.edu (8.11.6p2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h3NLbKu16882 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:37:21 -0400 Return-Receipt-To: "M. Murphy" From: "M. Murphy" To: "'Hans Leibbrandt'" Subject: RE: FW: Help with Research on Leibrandts Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:35:46 -0700 Organization: Harvard Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C309A5.A4E63530" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20030423194156.0086c05c@pop.iae.nl> Disposition-Notification-To: "M. Murphy" Hans, thank you for your response. Sorry if I was unclear, I'll respond to your questions in order of presentation. 1. With regards, to Johann or Jacob, I believe one of us is severely wrong. So it would be in our mutual interest to find out which one of us is right, and which one is wrong. So that we may both enjoy an accurate family record. Here is the basic problem, there was a Jacob John Leibrandt (it is believed that he occasionally went by Jacob or John) who came to California from the Midwest (which includes Ohio and Indiana). Our records have him born in Germany on October 20, 1815 and deceased in Santa Cruz, CA on January 8, 1895. As you can see the dates are similar enough to your Johann that I am concerned. Also no Leibrandt ever took a wife by the name of Rebecca. But the number of children born unto Jacob is unclear. My research indicates that he had some children in Indiana and some California, but it looks as though some also died not long after birth. So I while the final sibling count was five, it may have been initially much higher. Hans, I don't know where you got your information, but you should know that there is also a Santa Cruz county in the state of Arizona as well. The American abbreviation for county is "Co." somebody trying to read sloppy hand writing may mistakenly interpret "Santa Cruz Co." as "Santa Cruz, Ca" which would be the city of Santa Cruz in California which also happens to reside within the County of Santa Cruz. So I say that one of us is wrong, because the possibility that their were two distinct Leibbrandt families in Santa Cruz at that time would be almost impossible. 2. Irene is not a Leibrandt, she is somebody at the local university who is helping me with the research. 3. I would love a copy of your CD, absolutely is nothing is know about Jacob Leibbrandts ancestors. If a connection could be verified that would be extraordinary. Please send to: Michael Murphy 3063 Sacramento St. Apt. 19 San Francisco, CA 94115 Postage-Due PLEASE. 4. Hans, how common is the Leibrandt name in northern Europe? Thanks for all your help. -Michael Murphy -----Original Message----- From: Hans Leibbrandt [mailto:leibbran@iae.nl] Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:42 PM To: M. Murphy Subject: Re: FW: Help with Research on Leibrandts Hello Michael Murphy, Your mail is not 100% clear to me. To start: I live in the Netherlands, and my English is better than my German. My Leibbrandt genealogy site http://www.iae.nl/users/leibbran/leibbsite contains these three languages, depending on the origin of the source material. The spelling our the L.name has many variations and also its origin is explaned there. Starting with: 8-th century : King Liutprand , Pronounced As: lootprand , died. 744, king of the Lombards (712-44). See http://www.iae.nl/users/leibbran/leibbsite/stamm.htm And for Jonh Leibbrand(t) http://www.iae.nl/users/leibbran/leibbsite/stamm.htm#1035 8) Johann Jacob Leibbrand(t) born October 19, 1817 in Ingersheim (in Württemberg ) Germany, and died March 31, 1897 in California. JOHANN JACOB and his family travelled from Klein Ingersheim on 19.04.1831 and settled in America. In 1835, they lived in Tiffin, Seneca county, Ohio. In 1840 and 1850, they lived in Knox county and Wells county, Indiana State. Johann Jacob Leibbrand(t) married Rebecca Snyder and had one or more children born in Indiana before moving to Santa Cruz, California State and completing their family of eleven. Who is Irene? Do you mean: Images of Santa Cruz :: Topography is Destiny ... Leibbrandt and Miller joined their facilities in 1893 and built a bathhouse with an indoor seawater pool. ... Contact Irene Berry. Updated 31 January, 2003. library.ucsc.edu/collect/sc_images/topo2.html cached Or do you mean or one of the many "Irene Leibbrandt's" When you are very inerested in the Leibbrandt genealogy, I can send you a CD with all the files and the original source material; the "Leibbrand_archive". Of course there are many photos, but I am not from the Ingersheimer L-branch. Best regards, Hans Leibbrandt Kievietlaan 4 5683RC Best, The Netherlands Phone, Fax: +31 (0)499-398260 Mailto:leibbran@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/leibbran ____________________________________________________________ At 02:54 PM 4/21/03 -0700, you wrote: >Guten Tag Hans, > >Pardon my imposition of English, but I have exhausted the extent of >German on the salutation. > >I happened across your site while doing some research on the Internet. >Is there any information you can contribute to the results outlined >below? > >Any assistance you can provide is greatly appreciated. > >Warmest Regards, >Michael Murphy >(aka Great, Great Grandson of Jacob Leibrandt) > >-----Original Message----- >From: M. Murphy [mailto:msmurphy@fas.harvard.edu] >Subject: RE: Help with Research on Santa Cruz > > >Thank you very much, Irene. I have also found out some additional >information that I would like you to consider - time permitting of >course. > >John was married to Christine (maiden name Custer) she is supposed to >be a descendent of Martha Washington. If you happen across any >information about this or her, would also be excellent. All that is >known about Christine is that she died in Santa Cruz on May 4th 1878. >And she was born in Maryland in 1810. > >I would also be interested in Scan/Photo copies of any relevant >pictures in your collection. Let me know what provisions need to be >made in order to cover any associated fees/costs. > >-MM > >-----Original Message----- > > >Hello Mr. Murphy, >I'm glad you found the exhibit site useful! > >What you found was related to a book which came out of the University >of California Santa Cruz's historical photograph collection, housed in >the library's department of Special Collections. Sheila O'Hare, Social >Science Bibliographer, and I researched about 300 photographs for the >book, which came out last October. We are librarians at UC Santa Cruz. > >John Leibrandt is a well-known name to local historians here, for his >contribution to the establishment of a strong tourist industry in Santa >Cruz, since (I believe) it was he who started a bath house at the site >of the later Santa Cruz Boardwalk Casino. I would be glad to try to >verify some of the questions you have, if I can. > >The local history collection at UC Santa Cruz certainly contains >photographs of that bath house, and I believe of Mr. Leibrandt as well. > >Reprints are not an unusual request, although I ought to point you to >the reproduction policy for Special Collections, here: > > > >On Monday, Apr 14, 2003, at 15:38 US/Pacific, M. Murphy wrote: > >> Hello Irene, >> >> I came across some photos that were posted from the Special >> Collections Unit on the Internet. As it happens it too have been doing >> some research into >> Santa Cruz's history, but have the following discrepancies that I am >> trying >> to resolve. >> >> (1) From county records I have found the following spellings of >> Leibrandt: >> >> Leibbrandt, Liebbrandt, Liebrandt, Leibrandt >> >> While I believe the former three to be mis-spellings of the latter, I >> have no conclusive evidence. Although it is possible that there may >> have been >> another German family in Santa Cruz, it is not at all very likely. Most >> German immigrants, being as they were with out means, headed to the >> German >> settlement of Anaheim in southern California. >> >> On top of everything else, I found the following citation in a >> genealogy site on the Internet: >> http://home.iae.nl/users/leibbran/leibbsite/heinrich_all2.htm >> >> Generation No. 7 >> >> 7. JOHANN JACOB7 LEIBBRAND (JOHANN JAKOB6, CHRISTIAN5, JAKOB >> FRIEDRICH4, JOHANN HEINRICH3, JOHANN HEINRICH2, HANS HEINRICH1) was >> born October 19, >> 1817 in Ingersheim Germany, and died March 31, 1897 in California. >> He married REBECCA LYDIA SNYDER April 08, 1849 in Indiana. >> >> >> Children of JOHANN LEIBBRAND and REBECCA SNYDER are: >> 8. i. SOLOMON8 LEIBBRANDT, b. March 29, 1846; d. January 21, 1923. >> 9. ii. MARIA LEIBBRANDT, b. December 23, 1847, Indiana. >> 10. iii. JACOB JOHN LEIBBRANDT, b. September 27, 1849, Indiana; d. >> November 1929. >> 11. iv. WILLIAM LEIBBRANDT, b. August 13, 1851, Indiana; d. April 08, >> 1930, San Jose California. >> 12. v. HENRY LEIBBRANDT, b. April 04, 1854, Watsonville, Santa Cruz >> co. >> California; d. June 25, 1946, San Jose California. >> vi. REBECKA MARTHA LEIBBRANDT, b. September 20, 1856, Indiana. >> vii. JOHN W. LEIBBRANDT, b. January 03, 1859, Indiana; d. August >> 23, >> 1860, Indiana. >> 13. viii. ESTHER ANN LEIBBRANDT, b. March 28, 1861, Fort Wayne >> Indiana; d. >> October 01, 1937, Salinas, California. >> 14. ix. FRANK LEIBBRANDT, b. October 06, 1863, Indiana; d. 1905. >> 15. x. ELIZABETH LEIBBRANDT, b. September 27, 1865, Indiana. >> 16. xi. MARY ANN LEIBBRANDT, b. April 11, 1867, Indiana. >> >> Which is proving difficult to reconcile with known information. While >> the Leibrandts did spend time in Indiana, after John migrated from >> Germany. The >> soon went to California to live out the rest of their lives. >> >> Which brings me to my next point. >> >> > >> (2) If you have any Leibrandt pictures either online or otherwise I >> would appreciate any references. Pictures that show their buildings, >> siblings, >> etc. >> > > Hans Leibbrandt Kievietlaan 4 5683RC Best, The Netherlands Phone, Fax: +31 (0)499-398260 Mailto:leibbran@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/leibbran << File: Re_ FW_ Help with Research on Leibrandts.txt >> RE: FW: Help with Research on Leibrandts

Hans, thank you for your response. Sorry if I was unclear, I'll respond to your questions in order of presentation.

1. With regards, to Johann or Jacob, I believe one of us is severely wrong. So it would be in our mutual interest to find out which one of us is right, and which one is wrong. So that we may both enjoy an accurate family record.

Here is the basic problem, there was a Jacob John Leibrandt (it is believed that he occasionally went by Jacob or John) who came to California from the Midwest (which includes Ohio and Indiana). Our records have him born in Germany on October 20, 1815 and

deceased in Santa Cruz, CA on January 8, 1895. As you can see the dates are similar enough to your Johann that I am concerned. Also no Leibrandt ever took a wife by the name of Rebecca. But the number of children born unto Jacob is unclear. My research indicates that he had some children in Indiana and some California, but it looks as though some also died not long after birth. So I while the final sibling count was five, it may have been initially much higher.

Hans, I don't know where you got your information, but you should know that there is also a Santa Cruz county in the state of Arizona as well. The American abbreviation for county is "Co." somebody trying to read sloppy hand writing may mistakenly interpret "Santa Cruz Co." as "Santa Cruz, Ca" which would be the city of Santa Cruz in California which also happens to reside within the County of Santa Cruz.

So I say that one of us is wrong, because the possibility that their were two distinct Leibbrandt families in Santa Cruz at that time would be almost impossible.

2. Irene is not a Leibrandt, she is somebody at the local university who is helping me with the research.

3. I would love a copy of your CD, absolutely is nothing is know about Jacob Leibbrandts ancestors. If a connection could be verified that would be extraordinary.

Please send to:
Michael Murphy
3063 Sacramento St.
Apt. 19
San Francisco, CA 94115

Postage-Due PLEASE.

4. Hans, how common is the Leibrandt name in northern Europe?

Thanks for all your help.

-Michael Murphy

-----Original Message-----
From: Hans Leibbrandt [mailto:leibbran@iae.nl]
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 12:42 PM
To: M. Murphy
Subject: Re: FW: Help with Research on Leibrandts


Hello Michael Murphy,

Your mail is not 100% clear to me.
To start: I live in the Netherlands, and my English is better than my German.
My Leibbrandt genealogy site  

      http://www.iae.nl/users/leibbran/leibbsite

contains these three languages, depending on the origin of the source material. The spelling our the L.name has many variations and also its origin is explaned there. Starting with: 8-th century : King Liutprand , Pronounced As: lootprand , died. 744, king of the Lombards (712-44).

See   http://www.iae.nl/users/leibbran/leibbsite/stamm.htm

And for Jonh Leibbrand(t)
                http://www.iae.nl/users/leibbran/leibbsite/stamm.htm#1035
 8)  Johann Jacob Leibbrand(t)
       born October 19, 1817 in Ingersheim (in Württemberg ) Germany, and died March 31, 1897 in California.
JOHANN JACOB and his family travelled from Klein Ingersheim on 19.04.1831 and settled in America.
      In 1835, they lived in Tiffin, Seneca county, Ohio.
      In 1840 and 1850, they lived in Knox county and Wells county, Indiana State.
      Johann Jacob Leibbrand(t) married Rebecca Snyder and had one or more children born in Indiana before moving to Santa Cruz, California State and completing their family of eleven.

Who is Irene?

Do you mean:
Images of Santa Cruz :: Topography is Destiny 
... Leibbrandt and Miller joined their facilities in 1893 and built a bathhouse with an indoor seawater pool. ... Contact Irene Berry. Updated 31 January, 2003.

library.ucsc.edu/collect/sc_images/topo2.html cached

Or do you mean or one of the many "Irene Leibbrandt's"

When you are very inerested in the Leibbrandt genealogy, I can send you a CD with all the files and  the original source material; the "Leibbrand_archive".

Of course there are many photos, but I am not from the Ingersheimer L-branch.

Best regards,              Hans Leibbrandt
Kievietlaan 4
5683RC Best, The Netherlands
Phone, Fax: +31 (0)499-398260
Mailto:leibbran@iae.nl
http://www.iae.nl/users/leibbran ____________________________________________________________
At 02:54 PM 4/21/03 -0700, you wrote:
>Guten Tag Hans,
>
>Pardon my imposition of English, but I have exhausted the extent of
>German on the salutation.
>
>I happened across your site while doing some research on the Internet.
>Is there any information you can contribute to the results outlined
>below?
>
>Any assistance you can provide is greatly appreciated.
>
>Warmest Regards,
>Michael Murphy
>(aka Great, Great Grandson of Jacob Leibrandt)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: M. Murphy [mailto:msmurphy@fas.harvard.edu]
>Subject: RE: Help with Research on Santa Cruz
>
>
>Thank you very much, Irene. I have also found out some additional
>information that I would like you to consider - time permitting of
>course.
>
>John was married to Christine (maiden name Custer) she is supposed to
>be a descendent of Martha Washington. If you happen across any
>information about this or her, would also be excellent. All that is
>known about Christine is that she died in Santa Cruz on May 4th 1878.
>And she was born in Maryland in 1810.
>
>I would also be interested in Scan/Photo copies of any relevant
>pictures in your collection. Let me know what provisions need to be
>made in order to cover any associated fees/costs.
>
>-MM
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>
>Hello Mr. Murphy,
>I'm glad you found the exhibit site useful!
>
>What you found was related to a book which came out of the University
>of California Santa Cruz's historical photograph collection, housed in
>the library's department of Special Collections.  Sheila O'Hare, Social
>Science Bibliographer, and I researched about 300 photographs for the
>book, which came out last October. We are librarians at UC Santa Cruz.
>
>John Leibrandt is a well-known name to local historians here, for his
>contribution to the establishment of a strong tourist industry in Santa
>Cruz, since (I believe) it was he who started a bath house at the site
>of the later Santa Cruz Boardwalk Casino.  I would be glad to try to
>verify some of the questions you have, if I can.
>
>The local history collection at UC Santa Cruz certainly contains
>photographs of that bath house, and I believe of Mr. Leibrandt as well.
>
>Reprints are not an unusual request, although I ought to point you to
>the reproduction policy for Special Collections, here:
>
>
>
>On Monday, Apr 14, 2003, at 15:38 US/Pacific, M. Murphy wrote:
>
>> Hello Irene,
>>
>> I came across some photos that were posted from the Special
>> Collections Unit on the Internet. As it happens it too have been doing
>> some research into
>> Santa Cruz's history, but have the following discrepancies that I am
>> trying
>> to resolve.
>>
>> (1) From county records I have found the following spellings of
>> Leibrandt:
>>
>> Leibbrandt, Liebbrandt, Liebrandt, Leibrandt
>>
>> While I believe the former three to be mis-spellings of the latter, I
>> have no conclusive evidence. Although it is possible that there may
>> have been
>> another German family in Santa Cruz, it is not at all very likely. Most
>> German immigrants, being as they were with out means, headed to the
>> German
>> settlement of Anaheim in southern California.
>>
>> On top of everything else, I found the following citation in a
>> genealogy site on the Internet:
>> http://home.iae.nl/users/leibbran/leibbsite/heinrich_all2.htm
>>
>> Generation No. 7
>>
>> 7. JOHANN JACOB7 LEIBBRAND (JOHANN JAKOB6, CHRISTIAN5, JAKOB
>> FRIEDRICH4, JOHANN HEINRICH3, JOHANN HEINRICH2, HANS HEINRICH1) was
>> born October 19,
>> 1817 in Ingersheim Germany, and died March 31, 1897 in California.
>> He married REBECCA LYDIA SNYDER April 08, 1849 in Indiana.
>>
>>
>>        Children of JOHANN LEIBBRAND and REBECCA SNYDER are:
>>   8. i.   SOLOMON8 LEIBBRANDT, b. March 29, 1846; d. January 21, 1923.
>> 9. ii.   MARIA LEIBBRANDT, b. December 23, 1847, Indiana.
>> 10. iii.   JACOB JOHN LEIBBRANDT, b. September 27, 1849, Indiana; d.
>> November 1929.
>> 11. iv.   WILLIAM LEIBBRANDT, b. August 13, 1851, Indiana; d. April 08,
>> 1930, San Jose California.
>> 12. v.   HENRY LEIBBRANDT, b. April 04, 1854, Watsonville, Santa Cruz
>> co.
>> California; d. June 25, 1946, San Jose California.
>>   vi.   REBECKA MARTHA LEIBBRANDT, b. September 20, 1856, Indiana.
>>   vii.   JOHN W. LEIBBRANDT, b. January 03, 1859, Indiana; d. August
>> 23,
>> 1860, Indiana.
>> 13. viii.   ESTHER ANN LEIBBRANDT, b. March 28, 1861, Fort Wayne
>> Indiana; d.
>> October 01, 1937, Salinas, California.
>> 14. ix.   FRANK LEIBBRANDT, b. October 06, 1863, Indiana; d. 1905.
>> 15. x.   ELIZABETH LEIBBRANDT, b. September 27, 1865, Indiana.
>> 16. xi.   MARY ANN LEIBBRANDT, b. April 11, 1867, Indiana.
>>
>> Which is proving difficult to reconcile with known information. While
>> the Leibrandts  did spend time in Indiana, after John migrated from
>> Germany. The
>> soon went to California to live out the rest of their lives.
>>
>> Which brings me to my next point.
>>
>>
>
>> (2) If you have any Leibrandt pictures either online or otherwise I
>> would appreciate any references. Pictures that show their buildings,
>> siblings,
>> etc.
>>
>
>

Hans Leibbrandt
Kievietlaan 4
5683RC Best, The Netherlands
Phone, Fax: +31 (0)499-398260
Mailto:leibbran@iae.nl
http://www.iae.nl/users/leibbran << File: Re_ FW_ Help with Research on Leibrandts.txt >>